Tucker Carlson Interview of Vladimir Putin - Part 10 of 12

Zelensky’s Dilemma, Russian Christianity, Putin’s Christian Views

In part 9 of this series, we left Vladimir Putin discussing the disparate influences that Ukrainian President Zelensky has to balance in speaking for his country.  Ukraine has become a virtual financial, economic, and military vassal of the United States. Yet Zelensky must also be wary of threats by militant nationalists in the Ukrainian Volunteer Army (UDA), Ukrainian National Guard, and its Azov brigades who will not tolerate any compromise of complete Ukrainian victory and Russian defeat.    

Tucker Carlson: But do you think at this point – as of February 2024 – he has the latitude, the freedom to speak with you or government directly, which would clearly help his country or the world? Can he do that, do you think?

Vladimir Putin: Why not? He considers himself head of state, he won the elections. Although we believe in Russia that the coup d’etat is the primary source of power for everything that happened after 2014, and in this sense, even today’s government is flawed. But he considers himself the president, and he is recognized by the United States, all of Europe and practically the rest of the world in such a capacity – why not? He can.

Commentary: Peace negotiations began from the first day of the invasion, 24 February to 7 April 2022, mostly in Istanbul, Turkey. There was tentative agreement, but this was scuttled by a surprise visit to Zelensky in Kyiv by UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson on April 9. Johnson was Prime Minister of the UK from July 24, 2019, to September 6, 2022.

Putin continues: We negotiated with Ukraine in Istanbul; we agreed; he [Zelensky] was aware of this. Moreover, the negotiation group leader, Mr. Arakhamia is his last name, I believe, still heads the faction of the ruling party, the party of the President in the Rada. He still heads the Presidential faction in the Rada, the country’s parliament, he still sits there. He even put his preliminary signature on the document I am telling you about. But then he publicly stated to the whole world: “We were ready to sign this document, but Mr. Johnson, then the Prime Minister of Great Britain, came and dissuaded us from doing this saying it was better to fight Russia. They would give everything needed for us to return what was lost during the clashes with Russia. And we agreed with this proposal.“ Look, his statement has been published. He said this publicly.

Vladimir Putin: Can they return to this or not? The question is: do they want it or not?

Further on, the President of Ukraine issued a decree prohibiting negotiations with us. Let him cancel that decree and that’s it. We have never refused negotiations indeed. We hear all the time: is Russia ready? Yes, we have not refused! It was them who publicly refused. Well, let him cancel his decree and enter into negotiations. We have never refused.

And the fact that they obeyed the demand or persuasion of Mr. Johnson, the former Prime Minister of Great Britain, seems ridiculous and very sad to me. Because, as Mr. Arakhamia put it: “We could have stopped these hostilities, this war a year and a half ago already. But the British persuaded us, and we refused this.” Where is Mr. Johnson now? And the war continues.

Tucker Carlson: That is a good question. Why did he do that?

Vladimir Putin: Hell knows. I don't understand it myself. There was a general starting point. For some reason, everyone had the illusion that Russia could be defeated on the battlefield. Because of arrogance, because of a pure heart, but not because of a great mind.

Tucker Carlson: You have described the connection between Russia and Ukraine; you have described Russia itself, a couple of times as Orthodox – that is central to your understanding of Russia. What does that mean for you? You are a Cristian leader by your own description. So what effect does that have on you?

Commentary: The population of the Russian Federation is approximately 145 million, not counting recent accessions of Crimea and four other Russian-speaking oblasts in southeastern Ukraine. About 72 percent are ethnic Russians. The total European is 81 percent, which includes many eastern European immigrants. The Russian Federation has 193 minorities, which constitute 19 percent of the population. About 6.5 percent of Russians are Muslims. Buddhists, Hindus, and Jews are officially recognized religions but together make up less than one percent of the population.

Russia was considered one of the most Christian countries in the world before 1914, but the Communists under Lenin and Stalin were mercilessly hostile to Christianity from 1917 to 1943. Over 201,000 Russian priests, deacons, monks, and other clergy were executed. A vast but unknown number of ordinary Russian Christians also perished in this anti-Christian crusade. However, Stalin had to modify the Bolshevik scheme to completely eliminate Christianity in order to rally the Russian people against the German invaders and because U.S. President F. D. Roosevelt threatened to cut off military aid to the Soviets unless Stalin ceased the Christian genocide. Persecution was continued on less bloody terms until the rise of Mikhail Gorbachev to Soviet leadership in 1985. However, even at the peak of anti-Christian policies, the Communists were never able to crush Russian Christianity or the Russian Orthodox Church. A 2017 survey by the Pew Research Institute revealed 73 percent of Russians identified as Christians, up from 31 percent in 1991.  A comparable Pew survey in the U.S. found American Christian identity had declined to 65 percent. The vast majority of Russians identifying as Christians, more than 87 percent, are Russian Orthodox.  

Vladimir Putin: You know, as I already mentioned, in 988 Prince Vladimir himself was baptized following the example of his grandmother, Princess Olga, and then he baptized his squad, and then gradually, over the course of several years, he baptized all the Rus. It was a lengthy process – from pagans to Christians, it took many years. But in the end, this Orthodoxy, Eastern Christianity, deeply rooted itself in the consciousness of the Russian people.

When Russia expanded and absorbed other nations who profess Islam, Buddhism and Judaism, Russia has always been very loyal to those people who profess other religions. This is her strength. This is absolutely clear.

And the fact is that the main postulates, main values are very similar, not to say the same, in all world religions I’ve just mentioned and which are the traditional religions of the Russian Federation. By the way, Russian authorities were always very careful about the culture and religion of those peoples who came into the Russian Empire. This, in my opinion, forms the basis of both security and stability of the Russian statehood – all the peoples inhabiting Russia basically consider it their Motherland.

If, say, people move over to you or to Europe from Latin America – an even clearer and more understandable example – people come, but yet they have come to you or to European countries from their historical homeland. And people who profess different religions in Russia consider Russia their Motherland, they have no other Motherland. We are together, this is one big family. And our traditional values are very similar. I’ve just mentioned one big family, but everyone has his/hers own family, and this is the basis of our society. And if we say that the Motherland and the family are specifically connected with each other, it is indeed the case, since it is impossible to ensure a normal future for our children and our families unless we ensure a normal, sustainable future for the entire country, for the Motherland. That is why patriotic sentiment is so strong in Russia.

Tucker Carlson: Can I say, the one way in which religions are different is that Christianity is specifically a non-violent religion. Jesus says, “Turn the other cheek, don’t kill.” How can a leader who has to kill, of any country, how can a leader be a Christian? How do you reconcile that to yourself?

Vladimir Putin: It is very easy: when it comes to protecting oneself and one’s family, one’s homeland. We won’t attack anyone.

When did the developments in Ukraine start? Since the coup d'etat and the hostilities in Donbass began [2014], that’s when they started. And we are protecting our people, ourselves, our homeland and our future.

Commentary: Recently, on December 14, 2023, Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba admitted that the war between Ukraine and Russia began in 2014.

Putin continues: As for religion in general. You know, it’s not about external manifestations, it’s not about going to church every day or banging your head on the floor. It is in the heart. And our culture is so human-oriented. Dostoevsky [Russian Christian writer, 1821-1881], who is very well known in the West as the genius of Russian culture, Russian literature, spoke a lot about this, about the Russian soul.

After all, Western society is more pragmatic. Russian people think more about the eternal, about moral values. I don’t know, maybe you won’t agree with me, but Western culture is more pragmatic after all.

I’m not saying this is bad, it makes it possible for today’s “golden billion” to achieve good success in production, even in science, and so on. There's nothing wrong with that, I'm just saying that we kind of look the same, but our minds are built a little differently.

Tucker Carlson: So do you see the supernatural at work? As you look out across what’s happening in the world now, do you see God at work? Do you ever think to yourself: these are forces that are not human?

Vladimir Putin: No, to be honest, I don't think so. My opinion is that the development of the world community is in accordance with the inherent laws, and those laws are what they are. It's always been this way in the history of mankind. Some nations and countries rose, became stronger and more numerous, and then left the international stage, losing the status they had accustomed to. There is probably no need for me to give examples, but we could start with Genghis Khan and the Horde conquerors, the Golden Horde, and then end with the Roman Empire.

Commentary: Putin’s answer here does not fully reflect his religious beliefs, which are important to him and fairly well known in Russia, but hardly known at all in the United States and secularized Western Europe. More elaborate commentary follows below.  

Putin continues: It seems that there has never been anything like the Roman Empire in the history of mankind. Nevertheless, the potential of the barbarians gradually grew, as did their population. In general, the barbarians were getting stronger and began to develop economically, as we would say today. This eventually led to the collapse of the Roman Empire and the regime imposed by the Romans. However, it took five centuries for the Roman Empire to fall apart. The difference with what is happening now is that all the processes of change are happening at a much faster pace than in Roman times.

 Commentary: By the beginning of the reign of Tsar Alexander I (1801-1823), Russia was considered one of the most Christian and culturally conservative nations in the world. Alexander fought three wars against Napoleon, of which the most famous was Napoleon’s disastrous invasion of Russia in 1812. Christian dominance in Russia, however, changed dramatically after the Bolshevik Revolution of 1917.

Communist anti-Christian objectives soon became first priority over other Marxist ideology. In the 1918-1920 Civil War that followed, the Bolshevik Red Army eventually defeated the anti-Bolshevik “White” Army forces. Most of the Christian clergy were openly hostile to the Bolshevik Revolution and favored the White forces, thus exposing them to further persecution and violence.  

In 1914, there were in Russia 55,173 Russian Orthodox churches, and thousands of chapels,  monasteries, and convents. Stalin launched a massive anti-Christian campaign in 1928. By 1940, there were only 500 churches left. The massive persecution continued until 1943, when Stalin needed to have something more than bleak Communist ideology and misery to motivate Russians to save Mother Russia.

Putin has been a highly visible supporter of the Russian Orthodox Church. Putin and the Russian Orthodox Church are traditionalist conservatives on the Bible and social issues and are strongly opposed to the latest “woke” fashions spreading over the West. Liberal Western political pundits tend to discount the strong religious and spiritual influences underlying many Russian political and foreign policy issues. Western dismissal of Russian religious and social culture is a serious foreign policy mistake. The U.S. State Department, CIA, and their captive Western media have been straining every nerve and their own credibility to demonize Putin since at least 2007, but with little effect on the Russian public. Currently, over 80 percent of Russian voters express approval of Putin.

 In 2019, the Russian Orthodox Church had 40,512-full time clergy. The number of churches is now estimated to be over 21,000 versus less than 7,000 in 1991. There are about 90 million family members of the Russian Orthodox Church within the boundaries of the Russian Federation. Polls indicate an amazing 93 percent of Russians have respect for and a favorable opinion of the Russian Orthodox Church.

From the very beginning of Putin’s leadership of the Russian Federation, he has made the Russian Orthodox Church and Christianity in general part of his plan to revive Russian culture and greatness.

According to Danish theologian and journalist Iben Thranholm, writing an article for Russian Faith, dated October 5, 2017, entitled “Putin’s Christian Vision,” besides his loyalty to the beliefs of the Russian Orthodox Church, Putin has  been heavily influenced by  three 19^th and 20^th century Russian Christian philosophers—Nikolai Berdyaev, Vladimir Solovyov, and Ivan Ilyin. whom he frequently quotes in speeches. In fact, he instructed Russian regional governors to read their works over the 2014 winter holidays  According to Thranholm, a key message of these philosophers is that Russia has a God-given providential destiny in Christian history, in which Orthodoxy and preservation of Russia’s territorial integrity are important.  English language quotes from Berdyaev, Solovyov, and Ilyin can be found on the internet.

Ilyin (1883-1954) is the most often quoted: “Leaving our bond with God and the Christian tradition, mankind has become morally blind and gripped by materialism, irrationalism, and nihilism.”

“The way to overcome this global moral crisis is for people to return to “eternal moral values”—faith love, freedom, conscience, family, motherland, and nation, but above all faith and love.”

“To make Russia great again the Russian people should believe in God. This faith will strengthen their minds and willpower. It will make them strong enough to overcome themselves.”

Thranholm also quotes  Putin’s 2013 speech at the 1025^th anniversary of Russian Christianity in its Kiev birthplace:

“Spiritual unity is so strong that it is immune to any acts of authorities, either of a state or, I dare say, even of the Church. No matter what power the state may have over people, there is nothing stronger than the power of our Lord.”

Putin and other Russians frequently contrast conservative Orthodox beliefs on homosexuality and family with declining Western moral and family values. Putin frequently emphasizes there are only two genders—male and female. This also has an appeal to predominantly Orthodox Eastern European nations, where Russia has traditionally been looked upon for Orthodox leadership.

Putin’s vision for Russia cannot be understood without studying his spiritual views and his study of Christian thinkers Ilyin, Solovyov, Berdyaev, and also Solzhenitsyn.  Putin is an admirer and quoter of Russian Christian writer Alexsandr Solzhenitsyn (1918-2008), much admired in the United States. Putin sometimes visits Solzhenitsyn’s grave in Moscow.  

~ To be continued ...