War and Peace

Tucker Carlson Interview of Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov - December 6, 2024, Moscow

On December 6, Tucker Carlson was in Moscow to interview Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov. Lavrov has been the Russian Federation’s Foreign Minister for 20 years, since 2004. Lavrov was born in Moscow. His father was an Armenian from the Georgian SSR and his mother Russian. Lavrov speaks several foreign languages well and is fluent in English and French, so the interview was entirely in English and later translated to Russian for the Russian public.  He graduated from the Moscow Institute of International Relations in 1972 and has been both a Soviet and Russian Federation diplomat since then. Lavrov consistently maintains a deliberately  straight forward style of communication. He avoids speculation or exaggeration in answering questions. His knowledge of international situations and their histories is broad and deep. His intellectual, analytical, and diplomatic skills are formidable, and his credibility is highly respected in knowledgeable and objective diplomatic circles.  

The immediate background of this interview is that President Biden, supported or urged by Secretary of State Anthony Blinken, his Defense Advisor, Jake Sullivan, and others of shadowing influence approved Ukrainian use of American missiles to hit targets inside the Russian homeland. This also requires essential U.S. intelligence and technical support, including American personnel. Specifically included were MGM-140 U.S. Army tactical missile systems (ATACMS) with a range of 190 miles. As usual, the British have followed the U.S. lead with Ukrainians using British air-launched Storm Shadow missiles with a range of at least 155 miles. The French may also allow their Storm Shadow missiles, called SCALP-EG, to be used against Russian homeland targets. Most of the missile launches so far have not been very effective against Russian Air Defense, but several Russian military targets have been hit and at least 12 Russian soldiers killed.  The Russians consider these strikes an Act of War against Russia, and since American, British, and other NATO support is essential for targeting these missile strikes, they are considering retaliatory strikes on NATO targets outside Ukraine. So far, the Russians have confined their retaliation to horrendous attacks of up to 190 missiles and drones on Ukrainian targets. A significantly damaging Ukrainian missile attack on Russian soil could touch off attacks on major NATO targets and escalate to nuclear war.

Meanwhile the Biden Administration is doing everything it can to damage productive peace measures for the incoming Trump Administration on January 20. Both Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin have noted the Biden Administration’s reckless provocations to prevent peace.

Tucker Carlson has been in Moscow talking with Sergey Lavrov for an important reason—to avoid a catastrophic military confrontation between the United States and Russia. Modern civilization as we know it, the global economy, and the health and lives of inestimable millions of potential casualties are at extreme risk. Yet most Americans voters and those of our principal allies in NATO and the European Union are blindly ignorant or terribly misinformed about the issues and history that have brought us to the brink of unnecessary and pointless disaster. Understanding the Russians is essential to avoiding war and achieving a just and lasting peace. Tucker Carlson’s recent interview with Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov is an invaluable means of dispersing the darkness of ignorance and disinformation surrounding our foreign policy. Truth is the only reliable guide to security and peace, and without truth, security and peace, the benefits of civilization and prosperity are choked and can only decline or perish.

It is also wise to remember that in any potential military conflict, history teaches us two great errors to avoid: Underestimating your potential enemy and overestimating your own strength. Arrogance and hubris frequently underlie both errors.

The interview of almost 8,900 words lasted one hour and 22 minutes, and I will not attempt to give the reader more than selective quotes, but the interview can be found on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mL1iVvMnrNE

It is so packed with must-know. relevant information that the reader should find the time well worthwhile.

Tucker Carlson Question: Thank you for agreeing to the interview. Do you believe that the United States and Russia are currently at war?

Sergey V. Lavrov: “I wouldn't say that. Anyway, that's not what we want. Of course, we would like to have normal relations with all our neighbors. In general, with all countries, especially with such a great country as the United States.”

“Russian President Vladimir Putin has repeatedly expressed his respect for the American people, the history of the United States, and American achievements in the world. We see no reason why Russia and the United States cannot cooperate for the sake of the universe.”

Question: But the United States is financing a conflict in which Russia is involved. Now they allow strikes on the territory of Russia. Isn't this a war?

Sergey Lavrov: “Officially, we are not at war. Some people call what is happening in Ukraine a hybrid war. That's what I'd call it, too. Obviously, the Ukrainians would not be able to do what they are doing with modern long-range weapons without the direct participation of American military personnel. It's dangerous. There is no doubt about it.”

“We don't want to make the situation worse. But since ATACMS and other long-range weapons are used in Russia, we are sending signals. We hope that the last one (a couple of weeks ago) from the new "Hazel" system [Oreshnik] was taken seriously.”

“We also know that some officials at the Pentagon and in other organizations, including NATO, in recent days have begun to say that the bloc is a defensive alliance, but sometimes, they say, you can strike first, because the best defense is an attack. The representative of the Strategic Command of the US Department of Defense, Rear Admiral T. Buchanan, said that he admits the possibility of exchanging limited nuclear strikes.”

“Such threats are of concern. If they follow the logic that some Westerners have been voicing lately, that, they say, do not believe that Russia has "red lines", yes they announced them, but these "red lines" are shifting again, then this is a very serious mistake. That's what I would like to say in response to this question.”

“We didn't start the war. Russian President Vladimir Putin has repeatedly said that we have launched a special military operation to put an end to the [2014-2022] war that the Kiev regime waged against its people in Donbass. In his last statement, President Vladimir Putin made it clear that we are ready for any development of events. We prefer a peaceful negotiated settlement based on respect for Russia's legitimate security interests, respect for the Russian people living in Ukraine, their basic rights, linguistic and religious rights, destroyed by a number of laws passed by the Ukrainian parliament. It started long before the special military operation.”

[Laws against] “Russian Russian-language education, the work of the Russian media in Ukraine, and then the Ukrainian media in Russian have been passed since 2017. Steps have also been taken to cancel any cultural events in Russian. Russian books are thrown out of libraries and destroyed. The last step was the adoption of a law banning the canonical Ukrainian Orthodox Church.” [August 24, 2024; The UOC has historical links to the Russian Orthodox Church, which Ukrainian President Zelensky termed the “devils of Moscow.” Beginning in 2018, former Vice President Biden and later other U.S. officials helped facilitate this religious outrage.]

THE CHOICE OF RESIDENTS OF CRIMEA AND DONBASS

[topical heading by Lavrov]

“It is curious that in the West they say that they want this conflict to be resolved on the basis of the UN Charter and respect for the territorial integrity of Ukraine, and Russia, they say, should ‘leave.’ UN Secretary-General A .Guterres says similar things. Recently, his spokesman reiterated that the conflict should be resolved on the basis of international law, the UN Charter and General Assembly resolutions, while respecting the territorial integrity of Ukraine. This is the wrong approach. If you want to respect the UN Charter, you must respect it in its entirety. Let me remind you that this document, among other things, states that all countries must respect the equality of States and the right of nations to self-determination. Westerners also mention UN General Assembly resolutions. Obviously, they are referring to the decisions they made after the start of a special military operation, which condemns Russia and calls for Russia to ‘withdraw’ from the territory of Ukraine to the borders of 1991.”

“But there are other resolutions of the UN General Assembly that were not voted on--they were adopted by consensus. Among them is the Declaration on the Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Cooperation between States in Accordance with the Charter of the United Nations. It clearly states by consensus that everyone should respect the territorial integrity of States whose Governments respect the right of nations to self-determination and therefore represent the entire population living in a given territory.”

“It is absolutely useless to claim that the people who came to power as a result of the armed coup in February 2014 represented Crimeans or residents of eastern and southern Ukraine. Crimeans rejected the coup d'etat. They demanded to be left alone. They said they didn't want to have anything to do with these people. Donbass did the same. Crimeans held a referendum and joined Russia. Donbass [dissent] was declared terrorist by the putschists who came to power. They were shelled and attacked with artillery. The war began, which was [temporarily]] stopped in February 2015.”

“The Minsk Agreements were signed. We were sincerely interested in stopping this, but for this it was necessary that the Minsk agreements be fully implemented. But they were sabotaged by the government created after the coup in Ukraine. It was agreed that this government should enter into a direct dialogue with people who did not accept the coup and promote the development of economic relations with this part of Ukraine. None of this has been done. The Kiev regime has stated that it will never speak to them directly. This is despite the fact that the requirement to speak with them directly was approved by the UN Security Council. The Kiev regime called them terrorists, so they say they will fight them because they are stronger, and they will die in basements.”

“If it had not been for the coup in February 2014 and if the agreement reached the day before between then-President Viktor Yanukovych and the opposition had been implemented, Ukraine would still be united and Crimea would be part of it. It's obvious. They have not fulfilled this agreement. Instead, they organized a coup d'etat. The agreement in February 2014, among other things, provided for the creation of a government of national unity and the holding of early elections, which then-President Viktor F. Yanukovych would have lost. Everyone knew that. But they were impatient and occupied government buildings the next morning. They went to the Maidan and announced that they had created a "government of winners." Compare: the "government of national unity" to prepare for the elections and the "government of the victors".

“How will the people who, in their opinion, have been defeated respect the government in Kiev? You know that the right of nations to self-determination is the international legal basis for the decolonization process that took place in Africa on the basis of the relevant principle of the UN Charter. People in the colonies have never treated the colonial powers, the "masters", as those who represent them, whom they want to see in the structures governing these lands. Similarly, people in the east and south of Ukraine, in Donbass and Novorossiya do not consider the regime of V.A. Zelensky to be the one who represents their interests. How can they represent them when their culture, language, traditions, religion are all prohibited.”

“If we are talking about the UN Charter, resolutions, and international law, then the very first article of the UN Charter, which the West never remembers in the Ukrainian context, says: human rights must be respected, regardless of race, gender, language, or religion. Take any conflict, the United States, Great Britain, the European Union will intervene, they say that human rights have been grossly violated, and that they must "restore human rights in such and such a territory."

“In Ukraine, they never talk about "human rights" because they see that these very human rights for the Russian and Russian-speaking population are completely prohibited by law. Therefore, when we are told that, they say, let's resolve the conflict on the basis of the UN Charter, yes, we agree, but we must not forget that the UN Charter is not only about territorial integrity, which should be respected only if the government is legitimate and if it respects the rights of its people.”

Regarding the Oreshnik Missile—It was a warning.

“We are not talking about the extermination of anyone's population. We didn't start this war. For many years, we have warned that NATO's approach to our borders would create a problem. For years, Vladimir Putin explained this on international platforms to people who dreamed of the "end of history" and their "dominance." [ Note: ‘end of history’ refers to a 1992 book by Francis Fukuyama, The End of History and the Last Man, in which the end point of mankind’s ideological evolution is the universalization of Western liberal democracy as the final form of human government.]

“When the [February 2014] coup took place in Ukraine, the Americans did not hide that they were behind it. There is a recording of a conversation between then US Deputy Secretary of State V. Nuland and then US Ambassador to Kiev [Jeffrey Pyatt] when they discuss the people who will be included in the new government after the coup. The figure of $5 billion spent on Ukraine after independence was announced as a guarantee that everything would be the way the Americans want it to be”.

”We have no intention of destroying the Ukrainian people. They are brothers and sisters to the Russian people.”

Commentary:

There is much more to this interview that Americans and the NATO and the EU West need to understand. It will require informed moral and pollical clarity to comprehend the conditions necessary to end the war, before they let a “ship of fools” plunge us all into a burning Götterdämmerung.

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